Let me tell you a story. When I was growing up the primary religious influences in my life were my dad and the Palmer family.
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My dad was Catholic and growing up with him, mass was a weekly (Sundays) if not a daily discipline. I lamented going to church in the fall, especially when there was an early Broncos game. All I wanted to do was watch football. But my dad would make it a priority to attend mass at St. Joseph’s or St. John’s. To him, spending time with the Lord in meditation at a Cathedral was mystical. Taking of the Eucharist, for him, had power and was a means of grace.
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I remember saying to my dad when I was about five, on an Easter Sunday right after going to a Sunrise service, “Dad, why do we have to go to church again? We just went to church!” My father said, “Son, because I love God.” I thought to myself, “But don’t you love me?” So I blurted out these words in the best way a five year old knew how. I felt competition with God; I wanted my dad all to myself. And he said to me a few words that will always stick, “Son, of course I love you; but I love God more. And so we will go to Easter service today.” It was a holy moment. As I backed out of my father’s room, I remember thinking, “If my dad loves me so much, but loves God more, then God must be important.”
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I still didn’t understand the gospel of Jesus Christ. I remember going to a Catholic bookstore with my dad. There was a children’s book with pictures. I picked it up and leafed through the pictures only to open to a page of a bloody man on a cross. I felt like I needed to throw up. “If religion is good,” I reasoned, “then why does a Catholic bookstore have a picture of a bloody man?”
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At age eight, I was introduced to the gospel by my friends on the way to soccer practice. They asked if I knew for certain if I was going to heaven. I had no idea what they were talking about. They explained, “This is where you go when you die to be with God.” I said, “What if I don’t want to go there?” They said, “Then you go to hell.” I asked, “What’s hell?” They explained it was a lake of fire and eternal suffering for sin. My heart started beating fast. I asked, “What’s sin?” They said, “Bad things we do like swearing and stuff.” I had a potty mouth, so I knew I was headed straight for hell. I asked, “How can I make sure I go to heaven?” They said, “You need to meet Jesus.” Now, let me say that this is a strange way for someone to explain the Gospel. I literally thought I would meet a man named Jesus.
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Now what does the above paragraph have to say about my Catholic upbringing?
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So my friends invited me to their church for “AWANA” — which was like Christian Cub Scouts — so I could “meet” Jesus. I went. At the end they said, “If you want to meet Jesus, come forward.” So I did. They said, “Close your eyes.” I thought, “Why? Is Jesus gonna jump out of a closet or something?” Then they had us pray. I was so confused.
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The next day my friends invited me to their home. We lived in the mountains and so the shortcut from the bus stop was 3/4ths of a mile straight up hill, and it involved some rock climbing. Awesome childhood neighborhood to grow up in. We stopped on the rocks. The older brother asked, “Ryan, I saw you went forward to meet Jesus; what did you think?” I said, “Well, AWANA was fun, but Jesus never showed up.” He said, “Oh, that’s cause He died 2,000 years ago.” I was like, “If he died, how am I supposed to meet Him?” He said, “Well, cause he raised from the dead.” I said, “That’s impossible.” Then he shared the whole gospel about Jesus being God’s Son, living a perfect life, dying on the cross, raising from the dead… As he explained this to me, the images from that book in the Catholic bookstore of a bloody man flashed through my mind. All the images in the Catholic Churches I had gone to now made sense. I said, “Oh, now I get it.” And I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior.
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One of the strangest differences between my dad’s church and the Palmer’s church was communion. At the Catholic Church, this is done every service and every day if you want. And they made it into a big deal, as if your salvation is somewhat dependent on it. But I can tell you, walking into Catholic Mass every Sunday I felt dirty, walking out I would feel cleansed and light on my feet. At the Evangelical Free Church I attended with the Palmer’s, they only took communion once per month. When they would pass it out, you would sit in your seat and they would bring you a tray with wafers and then a tray with small individual cups. I always thought this was strange. It didn’t have the same affect on me personally, or spiritually. But at Catholic Mass we would come forward, individually receive a wafer from the Priest and then sip from the same cup, then go back to the pew and kneel. It was powerful.
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Theologically I never understood the difference until I went to Seminary. Now I understand that Catholics teach that communion is a “means of grace” through which you literally have sins forgiven, as if this contributes to your salvation.
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At Baptist churches and such, it is presented as more of a memorial, not a means of grace, but something we do symbolically to remember the gospel.
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Theologically I agree with the Baptist idea, but the method of the Catholics (and Lutherans / Anglicans) still resonates with me.
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The reason I am an Evangelical is because of what the Bible teaches on such topics. We are saved only by faith in Christ alone, not by works.
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Now, in college I faced a new challenge: tongues and prophecy. I had been exposed to .Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Evangelical Free, Baptist, and Presbyterianism, but there was one Christian group that has never made me feel completely comfortable.
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I would say that each Christian faith has something profoundly good to contribute to all other Christian perspectives. And each Christian faith has points of muddled confusion. The main point of it all is Christ, do you believe that salvation is in Christ alone?
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That being said, Catholicism has a really good point that we should be “one, catholic and apostolic Church.” There is a reverence in the Catholic Church that I miss. But, I would add, the gospel is not clear and in some cases is completely absent.
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Anglicanism and Lutheranism have retained much of the reverence, and they have emphasized the gospel historically, but just like any other denomination there can been biblical churches and non-biblical churches (usually the split is between fundamentalist/ conservatives and social-gospel/progressives — I wish the best of both could be emphasized in every church).
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Presbyterianism (and Methodism) both take a middle ground approach. I like what the father (a Presbyterian Minister) in A River Runs Through It said when asked his thoughts on Methodism, “I like Methodists, they’re like Baptists who can read.” This about says it all concerning these two forms of Evangelicalism. They have wonderful systems of theology rooted in Calvin and Wesley’s teachings. Methodism had at its beginning a wonderful method of ministry (small groups and the empowerment of lay ministers). Calvinism changed Geneva Switzerland from being one of the most dangerous to one of the safest cities in the world. I have so learned from both these Christian Traditions.
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Baptists and Evangelical Free and Non-Denominational churches have the gospel down. But for some reason the Baptists have a bad reputation. And sadly the Non-Denoms are mostly Baptist churches without “Baptist” in the title. There is a richness to the theology of these churches, and they get things done. But I have found there is a fear of Holy Spirit movement and empowerment (especially in relation to the charismata).
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I believe Christ is at the heart of all the above movements, denominations, associations, and that each appeals to a certain type of personality. So long as Christ and the Scriptures are central, I believe these faiths are Christian. All the way from the mystical to the liturgical, the high culture to the low culture, and Christ Transformer of Culture to Christ and Culture in Paradox. But there is one element in all the above that is missing, room for being led of the Spirit.
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I believe one reason many fundamentalists, evangelical, conservative Christians react against movements of the Spirit is because practice of the charismata is rarely taught. When it is, in some cases, it can be abused. This is what I observed in college.
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When I was 20 years old, my girlfriend took me to a Bible study on campus. The Pastor was solid and used the Word as his authority. I learned under him. We met weekly for three years and he discipled me, helped me through my struggles and crises of faith in college at a liberal “Christian” in name only college. I was being taught in the religion classes that the Bible is a book full of contradictions and not the Word of God. Thank you St. Olaf. At the same time, praise God for a Pastor educated at Dallas Theological Seminary who answered my questions and was able to point me to articles and books in the library, which countered what my professors taught (i.e., just because a professor has a PhD, doesn’t mean he has pure motives — many of the professors of religion didn’t believe the Bible, hence I felt they were actively trying to dissuade me from believing; and I found that their arguments were often weak. They raised good questions, but rarely gave us the answer. And in my own research I found many of the answers and the rest of my questions were answered in Seminary).
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So I am thankful for this Pastor. And, half way through my Soph. year he began to expose me to Holy Spirit charismatic practices. At first I reacted like I was interacting with a New Age / cultic pastor. And some of the guest speakers were crazy, with limited understanding of theology (taking scripture out of context and spiritually manipulating people). I trusted this pastor, for the most part, but I wouldn’t attend his church on Sundays because they spoke in tongues regularly. I do have to say this Pastor was sold out for Jesus like no one I have ever met before or since. And, I would say, I believe I did witness some things that were of the Spirit under his college ministry. But there was crazy stuff as well.
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Once a Prophet from Australia came and spoke to a group of about 400 people saying, “You need to be slain in the Spirit…tongues is a sign you’ve been slain…and being drunk in the Spirit is a manifestation. Look at all these Scriptures, they show people falling down on their backs and shacking, convulsing…that’s normal. So if you haven’t been slain in the Spirit, come here and I will blow in your ear the breath of the Spirit and you will fall and have this charismatic experience.” At this event some 150 young people (under 20) formed a circle around the room and this prophet walked around, blew in their ears, and people fell and convulsed on the floor. People were acting drunk and knocking over chairs. It was wild. I was scared. My girlfriend went up. Of the 150 students forming the circle, only 5 remained standing and would not fall. I looked around at the teenagers convulsing on the floor and noticed some of them would stop, look around, and have a puzzled look as if to say, “Okay, enough faking it, nothing is really happening here. This is weird.” While this took place, my girlfriend was one of the few who remained standing. She had the guy blow in her ear about five times. The final time, she fell. I wrote a note and put it on her Bible and said, “I went back to the dorm, call me when you want me to pick you up, this seems like a cult.” She called me immediately when I arrived in my room (this was pre-cell phones). I picked her up. In the car I rattled off all the scriptures in their pamphlet and showed how they were being abused. “The prophet said people always fall backwards and have this kind of experience when they are slain, but notice these people always fall forwards,” I continued frustrated and ready to break up with my girlfriend if she disagreed, “also notice: ‘slain in the Spirit’ is not even in the Bible; and where is this idea of being “drunk in the Spirit?” She said, “Ryan, I fell because he kept pushing me. Relax.”
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When I met with my college Pastor, I asked him questions. I trusted him. He had a lot to say. I showed him the pamphlet and how verses were taken out of context. He didn’t say much, but did say, “When the Spirit comes on you, you will not be able to control it. But you should never feel like if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved. That is a kind of abuse. And notice there are many other kinds of gifts in 1 Corinthians 12, not everyone receives tongues.”
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Since this time I have been to charismatic bible studies, church services, and I have friends who are charismatic (even some of our congregants are charismatic, and I highly respect them). And, I believe I have had some genuine “charismatic” experiences. I believe my back was temporarily healed in 1997 when my college pastor prayed for me. I felt it instantly relax as he prayed. Another time I felt the Spirit work powerfully in my inner chest cavity coming up through to my quivering chin as tears streamed down my face as a Korean woman prayed over me through a translator in 2014. I even had a dream about a month ago in which the Spirit powerfully anointed me in a similar way as I spoke in tongues in my dream (it felt so real – and you, reading this, are only the second person I have told — my own wife will likely learn this for this first time reading these words).
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So the question is, where should we Christians fall on all this? As a Pastor with an Ecumenical past and a Baptistic present, what should I believe and teach? What matters is not what any one denomination teaches on the subject, what matters is what the Bible says. And this will be the topic from the pulpit starting February 4th to mid-March.
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As I prepare and preach, it is my job to remove denominational and experiential bias, and preach what the words mean and allow the Spirit to work among us.
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As you receive the research I will bring, it is your job to remove denominational and experiential bias, and receive what the Spirit has for you (us).
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I guarantee the next 6-8 weeks will be uncomfortable. But necessary to be biblical.
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Please be in prayer for me that I get it right in my research and delivery.
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Please be in prayer for us that we respond rightly.
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GODSPEED
P.R. Faust 